Teaching from the Ground of Practice: A Conversation with Joseph Goldstein

Joseph Goldstein and Fleet Maull are both teachers in the EMI Mindfulness Teacher Training

At the heart of mindfulness teaching lies something deeper than methods and techniques—something that can’t be learned from a manual. In a recent conversation between Fleet Maull, founder of the Prison Mindfulness Institute and the Engaged Mindfulness Institute, and renowned Dharma teacher Joseph Goldstein, this truth was illuminated through a heartfelt dialogue about the path of practice and the ethical foundation of teaching.

Fleet opened the conversation with a question that touches many of us who walk the path of mindfulness education: How does one evolve as a teacher while remaining rooted in personal practice?

Joseph’s response was clear and grounding: the most important foundation for teaching is one’s own daily meditation practice. “It doesn’t matter so much how long it might be,” he said, “but the regularity of it.” Daily practice becomes the ground from which authentic teaching arises. Without that personal experience, teaching becomes theoretical—perhaps helpful, but lacking the depth of real transmission from embodied presence.

“The real help,” Joseph said, “comes from how we are, even much more than what we say.”

He emphasized that teaching mindfulness is essentially sharing our own lived experience: “Oh yeah, what you’re experiencing—I’ve experienced that too. And this is what I found helpful.” This kind of authenticity, he explained, grows out of self-understanding. And the more deeply we understand ourselves, the more deeply we understand others. While our specific life experiences may differ, the qualities of mind and heart—anger, love, fear, compassion—are universal.

“The real help and the real transmission comes from how we are, even much more than what we say.” — Joseph Goldstein

This inner work naturally cultivates empathy, which Joseph sees as essential for genuine connection. “When we meet others from that ground of empathy, communication really can flow,” he said. Fleet agreed, pointing out that our capacity for empathy with others arises from self-empathy—a willingness to meet our own experience with honesty and care.

The conversation then turned toward ethics and the responsibility of teaching mindfulness. Joseph pointed to the five precepts—non-harming, honesty, integrity in relationships, mindful speech, and clarity of mind—as a strong ethical foundation. But he also offered a more nuanced perspective: the importance of being honest about our motivations. “We don’t have to be saints,” he said, “but we do need not to delude ourselves.” By being aware of our wholesome and ego-driven motivations, we can consciously choose to act from the most skillful place within us.

Quoting W.H. Auden, Joseph shared a tender reminder of our shared humanity:“Love your crooked neighbor with all your crooked heart.”

Fleet echoed the importance of embodying the practice—not perfectly, but sincerely. People are looking for useful techniques and a presence that reflects the fruits of the path. “We can be human,” he said, “but still there’s some responsibility.”

The dialogue closed with mutual gratitude. Joseph expressed his deep appreciation for the work of bringing mindfulness into prisons, schools, shelters, and other underserved spaces. “These are well-tested practices,” he said. “Bringing them to places where they are not easily accessed is a tremendous gift and service.”

“We don’t have to be saints. But we do need to not delude ourselves.”— Joseph Goldstein

In turn, Fleet reflected on the importance of staying connected to the root sources of these practices—ancient traditions, contemplative lineages, and now, newer approaches grounded in neuroscience and psychology. The balance of tradition and innovation is a defining quality of engaged mindfulness.

This conversation is a powerful reminder that teaching mindfulness is not about having all the answers. It's about living the questions, practicing daily, and showing up with humility, presence, and care. It’s about being human and meeting others in their humanity.