In this episode, Rev. Dr. Michael Christie., speaks with John MacAdams, Program Manager & Senior Trainer at the Center for Mindfulness in Public Safety, about teaching mindfulness to Christians, adapting mindfulness for various faith traditions, and engaging participants in mindfulness workshops.
A working definition of mindfulness
Approaches to Teaching Mindfulness to Christians
Adapting Mindfulness to Faith Traditions
Personalized Mindfulness Teaching Approach
Engaging Participants in Mindfulness Workshops
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Rev. Dr. Michael Christie is the Chaplain Supervisor with the CT DOC. He offers Faith and spiritual coaching to the men and teaches trauma-informed Mindfulness, Nonviolent Communication, the Path of Freedom, and inner healing work.
Podcast Transcript
01:49
John MacAdams
Welcome to the Teaching Mindfulness Summit. I'm John MacAdams, here with Reverend Doctor Michael Christie. Welcome, Michael.
02:02
Rev. Dr. Michael Christie
Thank you, John. It's good to be here.
02:04
John MacAdams
Yeah, it's good to have you with us. I want to begin by reading people your bio. Reverend Doctor Michael Christie is trained in several transformational modalities that help and support those who seek to be resourceful in dealing with various life experiences that can be dysregulating. Michael is the senior pastor of the Zion First Baptist Church, Middletown, Connecticut, and is a Chaplain supervisor with the Connecticut Department of Correction. He works with staff and inmates, offering tools to help transform past, present, and future traumatic events. Michael received his doctorate at Hartford Seminary with a study emphasis on new technology and community outreach. Doctor Christie is a certified mindfulness meditation instructor and International Mindfulness Teachers Association member. He is passionate about teaching mindfulness to faith communities.
02:58
John MacAdams
He is also trained in several modalities, emotional freedom technique, internal family systems, nonviolent communication or compassionate communication, and heart math, and he is a neurolinguistic programming master practitioner. Doctor Christie works with individuals and groups desiring a trauma-informed view of the populations they serve. He offers coaching and training to individuals, nonprofits, schools, and corporations on various transformational topics. So, again, Michael, it's my pleasure and honor to be with you today. Michael and I get to spend time together, and it's always just really a pleasure to be with you, Michael.
03:45
John MacAdams
Okay, so I will ask you, what's your definition of mindfulness? How do you see mindfulness fitting into the Christian faith? So, two questions for you.
04:07
Rev. Dr. Michael Christie
So, the classic definition of mindfulness is paying attention in a particular way. So, it's directing your attention in a particular way. So that's the basic summation for me of mindfulness. And, of course, that extends to a variety of things. We can be mindful when we're meditating, and we can be mindful of just paying attention to what we're doing during the day. If I'm taking a shower, I can be mindful, particularly taking a shower, feeling the water, and being present in the shower experience. Mindfulness matters in the Christian community or in the faith-based community because much of our prayer is a form of meditation and requires paying attention, being alert, calling our minds back when they wander when we start planning for tasks other than praying when we're not present to that.
05:05
Rev. Dr. Michael Christie
And so, for me, it's been a transformational addition to my Christian faith in terms of my prayer life and settling myself. I find that I'm more connected to God, connected to the Divine. I have more access to discerning what I call this, discerning the voice of God when I'm able to be mindfully present, and mainly when I'm mindful in my meditation.
05:34
John MacAdams
Okay. Thank you. So tell us, how did you get to this place to be a black Baptist preacher practicing and teaching mindfulness?
05:45
Rev. Dr. Michael Christie
Yeah, it's been an exciting journey. Maybe 20 years ago, I started. I first learned NLP, Neuro-Linguistic Programming. And back then, there were some meditation pieces to it. I was at the part of my journey where I was a little spooked by meditation. I misunderstood that meditation was a Buddhist thing or a new age thing; somebody in my tradition would tell me that. And so there was lots of tension within me and resistance to not open up myself to this practice of meditation. But as I grew in my faith tradition, read my scriptures, and saw throughout so many places in the Bible, we're called to meditate on God's word.
06:35
Rev. Dr. Michael Christie
Just looking at Jesus going to the mountains, into the wilderness by himself to pray, I sense that he was doing more than what we'd call prayer now. He certainly might be talking to the father, but he was also sitting still and trying to hear from the father. And so I started becoming more curious about meditation. And I think the thing that shifted for me is when studies from John Campbell Zinn started to come out about the studies they were doing, I think, at UMass, and the kind of powerful research response they were getting from folks that were in the clinical trials doing eight weeks of mindfulness versus the control trial, that control group that didn't do anything and how much different it was for those that were doing mindfulness in terms of pain and how they related to pain.
07:28
Rev. Dr. Michael Christie
And I believe they measured several other things. That gave me ease because of the scientific basis of returning to space. As I began to study and research my spiritual text, I discovered that God was calling us to meditate, and I didn't know how. What I was calling meditate was a form of meditation. I was studying the word, looking at the Greek and Hebrew verses of things, and digging deep into the scriptures. But I think he's calling us to another level of meditation. One of the scriptures says, Be still and know I am God.
08:09
Rev. Dr. Michael Christie
And I think that verse encapsulates what I was longing for, that if I wanted to know God if I wanted to know the divine, there was something about learning how to be still, which our culture doesn't do very well at. We are a very busy culture. There's always something going on. Our iPod or iPhone, our iTunes, our laptops, our TVs. We're always buzzing with many things going on in our lives that we have lost. The art of stillness. There's so much of our culture that is counter stillness. And there was something powerful in just being still in your body and still in your mind so that you can hear from God.
08:47
Rev. Dr. Michael Christie
And so I was fortunate enough to meet at Fleet and get trained in mindfulness meditation, to get certified through that program that just transformed how I looked at Scriptures, studied the word of God, and engaged with people. Really, for me, when lots of Christians talk about having the mind of Christ. I found it easier to embody at least what many call the mind of Christ, which is to be much more compassionate. Mindfulness and mindfulness meditation have helped me to do that better than I was before. I don't strive as hard to do it. Some days, I'm good at it; some days, I'm not. But now I have a tool that helps me to move forward in that space, and I'm just loving it.
09:43
John MacAdams
That was a lot. Thank you. Thank you so much. And so I mentioned that you and I can spend time together. We were together at a conference for the American Corrections Association. We had gone together into the presentation hall, the sales hall, and were standing in a booth, and I was talking to a young man, a young black man, and he asked what we were doing, and you were off talking to somebody else. And he said, Oh, mindfulness meditation. He said, you know, I'm interested, but I'm a little bit scared of it, or I'm a little bit unsure. You said I'm a Christian. And he was a very authentic and devoted man. And he said, I'm a Christian, and I don't know. I don't know how it's going to work.
10:33
John MacAdams
And so I said, we happen to have the perfect person right here to talk to you. And we got the two of you together talking, and I could stand and listen to how you spoke with this man and the dialogues you shared. And we got the two of you together talking, and I could stand and listen to how you spoke with this man and the dialogues you shared. It was very impressive.
10:50
John MacAdams
It was a really beautiful moment. And you set this young man at ease. And I think you sent him on a path of exploration and discovery. I anticipate that skepticism is something that you come up against or come in contact with when working with your church or other faith communities. And so what are you seeing? It was a beautiful moment, and you set this young man at ease. I think you set him on a path of exploration and discovery. I'm going to anticipate that skepticism is something that you come up against or come in contact with when you're working with faith communities, whether in your particular church or other faith communities that I know you're called to speak with and work with.
11:23
John MacAdams
What are you seeing as challenges and concerns that Christians are bringing about mindfulness, and how can you address those concerns respectfully and effectively? And in the end, does mindfulness in some way, or are there any slivers here? You're finding that there are conflicts with Christian beliefs?
11:48
Rev. Dr. Michael Christie
So there are three pieces there. There's the interaction with the young man. And I think you're asking if he embodies some Christian concern, resistance, maybe even fear about this, and conflicts with their faith if they're doing mindfulness and meditation. And so, as you know, there are two things: I can be mindful and not meditate, but I typically can't meditate without being mindful. So that's one distinction we can clear up for folks. For example, when you're cooking, you can be mindful. So, that is not a Buddhist event to cook. It's not a Buddhist event to do all our daily things.
12:37
Rev. Dr. Michael Christie
And so, unfortunately, there was this understanding from many church leaders that when the Eastern practices were coming to the country, there was some resistance, some anxiety about what that might mean for the church. And because meditation was so strongly associated with Buddhism or with the new age movement, lots of pastors would teach that it was not for Christians, and they had some legitimate reasons. In the early sixties, when the movement was starting to, when eastern practices were starting to take off in the US, lots of celebrities were practicing meditation and going to see these gurus. But in addition to that, they were also doing psychedelics and having these out-of-body experiences and then kind of combining those two things and talking about those two things as though they were one eventually.
13:40
Rev. Dr. Michael Christie
And so when the church heard that, they threw the baby with the bathwater out. They said, well, we don't want to have our folks doing psychedelics, and we don't want them having out-of-body experiences. And that must be what meditation is about. And so we are firmly against meditation. We've come to understand that there are fads, which was undoubtedly one of them. We also know that this is not the essence of meditation. While specific meditations might promote trying to have these bodies experience most meditation, that's not the case. It's just about centering yourself and calming your nervous system down. And we have historical support in the Christian faith.
14:33
Rev. Dr. Michael Christie
The early church fathers, the monks, the Franciscans, and some of the Catholics in the early church years were meditators. We had many Catholic traditions, such as going into the mountains to separate ourselves, meditating, and praying, and that's all they did. So, meditation and prayer are not foreign to the Christian faith. It just got misunderstood or confused during that period, during the sixties. And so that's what I explain to folks. Most are not because they think it's another faith tradition, belief, form, or act. And so I asked, do you stop praying because of Buddhist prayer, because some other faith prays, they say, no. I said, all the other faith traditions pray. That doesn't stop you from praying.
15:29
Rev. Dr. Michael Christie
So, mindfulness and meditation are not owned by any faith tradition. And so it's a tool, just like a hammer or fork, which is not owned by any faith tradition. We all have access to this to feed our bodies and minds. So, explain that and then go into the scriptures and show how the Bible invites us to meditate. And when you look at some of those root words of meditation, there are different words that kind of point you to meditating, musing, humming, chanting, sitting still, and pointing to deep reflection. And all of these are forms of meditation. And when you experience, there's nothing like having an experience, an encounter with meditation.
16:20
Rev. Dr. Michael Christie
And if you're a person who is trying to grow in your faith tradition and to get closer to God, then there is no better way to do it than to learn to be still. Because this is the challenge for most faith traditions. We have been taught in prayer to talk. We do all the talking, go to God, and yabbying at God all day long. If we are that good, most of us never let God talk back because we don't give him the space to talk. We're always doing the talking.
16:52
Rev. Dr. Michael Christie
And so what meditation teaches us is to pause long enough that you might hear from God whatever that might look like for you or feel like for you to begin the practice, to cultivate, to say back to God, I've done my talking and my request, and I want to honor our time by making the space to hear from you, to see what you want to say. And the more we do that, the better we get a kind of learning and discerning. And when I do that, I don't always hear a voice or even most of the time. And maybe nothing happens when I do that, but. I feel wonderful that I'm honoring my relationship with God by giving him his space, right? In any respectful relationship, we both get to talk.
17:37
Rev. Dr. Michael Christie
I don't always talk, and the other person doesn't. And indeed, if the other person is more powerful than I am and more loving and kind, and if I need them more in my life, I want to hear from them. And so it's a practice to pause and to give God the space to connect with us. So that's the difference. And so when it's put in that perspective, I believe most people see the rationale and can try that for themselves. And so, the beautiful thing about meditation is that you meditate and use your faith tradition and your scriptures. So, for us as Christians, you use the Bible to talk about.
18:17
Rev. Dr. Michael Christie
You can meditate on a word in the Bible, you can chant a word, repeat a word, focus on a phrase, or sit there and count your breath, so to speak, just as a form of meditation to discipline your mind to be still. So, there are different intentions when we meditate. What am I meditating for? Am I meditating as a form of prayer? Am I meditating because I'm trying to train my mind to be still? Am I meditating because I want to hear from God? Am I meditating because I want to embody more of Christ's character? I mean, it depends on our intention at any given moment. On any given day, we can incorporate a different form of meditation to meet those needs and goals.
19:06
John MacAdams
So I heard a lot in there. I heard maybe what I heard were styles of contemplative practice, styles of reflective practice, styles of stillness, and openness. I heard a lot in there. And you're also talking about listening. Listening is such an important skill that we can cultivate. Listening actively, listening empathically and in your words, listening for the word of God or listening to God and honoring that. Honoring that conversation, that time together. So, regarding time together, prayer, and worship, you're a pastor; you preach in church every Sunday. How do you bring this? What does it look like when you're in church? When you're the pastor in a church, are you bringing mindfulness very covertly, or how are you integrating in that way?
20:10
Rev. Dr. Michael Christie
So, in the space of worship. I don't have the intention or the cognition to say, I'm going to do something mindful. So, sometimes, I might invite the congregation just to be still. Let's pause. Be still. Right. As a gentle way, as mindfulness. I've taught mindfulness to the church through several workshops. We'll get together on Saturdays to learn how to cultivate a meditation practice. What is that like, and then have some experiential parts of that where we actually sit and meditate together? And folks have just been blown away by that. The experience of sitting still and connecting with the divine sells itself. So, most of my time has been spent incorporating mindfulness or meditation into the church experience. It's been that way.
21:23
Rev. Dr. Michael Christie
And I think, you know, prayer is a form of meditation as well. So prayer is a big part of the black church; that we're praying. It's not as intentional as calling to be mindful about a particular thing in our prayer. So, I don't necessarily do that in the worship experience, although I could. There are spaces where I could call folks just to be still. I could invite everyone to be still for a moment and connect with God, or maybe even visually be still and imagine you're in the presence of God as a way for us to focus, be mindful, and imagine what that might be like. Brings people into the space.
22:08
Rev. Dr. Michael Christie
Most of the time, I do this through workshops to empower individuals to form their practices. So you don't have to wait for Sunday service to get a taste of this, but you can make your meal, right? I don't have to wait to go to the restaurant to order something fancy. I can make my fancy food at home if I know the essential ingredients to cook a particular meal. And so it's my intention and goal to teach folks to meditate for themselves. So when you're home, you don't need to hear my voice. You can do this on your own.
22:55
Rev. Dr. Michael Christie
When you're sitting with God or sitting with your study and holy scriptures, this is a beautiful way for you to engage with study, that you're pausing and doing some meditation to open up your mind and your heart to receive. I want you to have the skills for yourself. And so I haven't, to answer your question, I haven't made a big fuss about incorporating it into the worship experience. My preference is to teach folks to do that, and we do
.
23:29
Rev. Dr. Michael Christie
And when I have Bible studies, not all the time, but on enough occasions, I will lead us to our meditation to pause everyone, just to center everyone and get our minds and hearts prepared for the study and conversation that we're about to have. So those are typically the spaces that show up for me, not on Sunday worship.
23:56
John MacAdams
What is interesting to me is that you sometimes work with church parishioners in these workshops. Do you hear feedback from them in terms of their worship? Do you hear feedback from them in terms of their Sunday worship experience?
24:33
Rev. Dr. Michael Christie
The response has been profound, and I've had several members say to me, so, first of all, the folks that have come hasn't just been members of the church, they've been members of other churches in the community. People are curious and want to know what this is about and how I can incorporate this into my faith journey. But the responses have been just really amazing in terms of people's, of, people, aha! It's like, wow, I wish I had known this before because it just really elevates your faith walk. It elevates
your spirituality and how you connect with God. And they sense that. They feel that. How does that show up differently for them on Sunday? I can't say, but I know then it shows up.
25:31
Rev. Dr. Michael Christie
So this is not something you do one time, and then, you know, you're done, you get all the benefits of it, and you never have to do it again. So, for those who are consistent in practicing, in doing it, just like they would pray every day. Meditation is like spiritual hygiene as well as mental hygiene. And so the more I do it, the more that shows up for me on Sunday. It does not just show up on Sundays but for me every day. In terms of
my willingness to let things go, my willingness to be more compassionate to myself and others. Just my willingness to live it with more gratitude. All these things show up for different people in different ways.
26:17
Rev. Dr. Michael Christie
But practicing it, especially if you're practicing it in a way that embodies your faith tradition, will show up in your life more than if you don't. That's been my experience. That's been the experience I've witnessed, as well as other people I've coached, talked to, and trained. From the workshops I've done and the feedback I've gotten, I'm getting overwhelmingly positive responses from folks. I have not had someone say this; it has been a bad experience for them. Now, some folks struggle with meditation because they have some trauma in their history, and so sitting still and kind of doing that is difficult. So they need more guidance. They need someone with more experience to walk them through what is happening.
27:04
Rev. Dr. Michael Christie
But for the most part, if you don't have any significant, severe trauma history and you're able to sit, they're sleeping better, they're praying better, it's just really every aspect of their faith and their spirituality improves through mindfulness and meditation.
27:20
John MacAdams
That's exciting, a vehicle to transform their life. Beautiful. So, this is a summit about actually teaching mindfulness. And I think a good portion of our audience here will possibly teach mindfulness to Christians. So, I'm a volunteer chaplain, and I've often taught mindfulness to groups with a whole number of different faiths and denominations within Christianity. And, we'll have pagans, and we'll have all kinds of folks and folks who are Islamic. And so, can you give us some nuts and bolts? How do you approach teaching mindfulness to, like, somebody who's new or curious?
28:21
John MacAdams
Maybe you can talk about what you do in prison when you put up a poster or how you advertise to get your folks into your workshops. What are the first sort of nuts and bolts? How do you step people into it and walk them through it?
28:37
Rev. Dr. Michael Christie
So, I have an advantage as a chaplain. Being a staff chaplain, I have equity with the inmates and the incarcerated folks. So my invitation means something because of that, compared to if you don't have that. But now the population's eyes are being opened about mindfulness and meditation, and there's much curiosity about that. People want to see, will this help them? Will this benefit them? And if you're able to talk about some of the wellness benefits, the health benefits, you're able to sleep better, you're able to lower your blood pressure, you're able to focus more, you're able to be more in touch with yourself.
29:26
Rev. Dr. Michael Christie
Even if we don't get spiritual, say, here is what the research is saying happens to your mind and body when you do this, and on top of that, you get the benefit of the spiritual benefit. So those will be the selling points, I would say. I lay things out for folks. What kind of earthly benefit do you get from it, so to speak? I also talk about the spiritual benefit for those who want to deepen their faith, those who want to discern God's voice better, and those who want to build more empathy and capacity for compassion. In terms of the spiritual level, for those who want to understand. What does the Bible mean when it says meditate on God's words?
30:22
Rev. Dr. Michael Christie
Those would be some of the things that I would put on a flyer to help those who are curious or to help those who are unsure or on the fence, or you can even put, hey, myths and truths about meditations for Christians, like, there's something as simple as that. So folks can come and get your questions answered and have folks come and just being able to ask their questions, ask the stuff that they're concerned about, that they're worried about, that they're fearful about. Ask where they see the conflict for them would integrate this practice into their lives. And if you can answer that and it makes sense to folks, they'll be happy to try it.
31:04
Rev. Dr. Michael Christie
On top of that, do something experiential right before you leave, something that is not way out there for folks but something where they can incorporate their faith tradition. And if you're of the same faith tradition, you can do that to guide somebody. Do that using the holy scriptures; it could just be using the name of Jesus. There's a plethora of ways you can go, right? The Jesus prayer. There are so many contemporary, contemplative Christian mindfulness or meditation practices out there that you can follow, or if you're like me, I make up my own. Make up my own because I have a level of training that I can do what meets my needs.
31:55
Rev. Dr. Michael Christie
And so that's a wonderful thing that I enjoy about having the knowledge and information about teaching mindfulness and understanding mindfulness. I'm able to construct something that fits my own needs at any moment. I'm not stuck to a prescription, a particular prescription about how to integrate mindfulness into my faith. I do that in many different ways.
32:23
John MacAdams
And for folks like myself, who will regularly end up with a mixed group of men, I work in a men's jail. Do you have any suggestions or thoughts about how to approach that? As you said, I love the idea of the earthly, the scientific, and the health benefits. You speak a lot about self-regulation, regulating the nervous system. As we regulate the nervous system, we also regulate our cognitive mind and emotions. So sometimes I feel like, gee, might there be a conflict for somebody who is Islamic or Pagan or Jewish, as well as all these different denominations of Christians?
33:42
Rev. Dr. Michael Christie
So, it's certainly much more challenging to practice mindfulness meditation to teach about its spiritual benefits in an ecumenical way. Although it is possible. So I've taught mindfulness, just mindfulness. I wasn't connected to spirituality, per se. I was teaching people how to regulate their nervous system, calm their anxiety, and calm the worry in their minds. And there were folks from different faith traditions that were present, and so we kind of just focused on the basics of doing that. I wasn't integrating my faith tradition. If I had to teach and had an eclectic group where folks from different faith traditions were there wanting to know how I could integrate mindfulness into my faith tradition, it would be easy for me.
One of the ways you do that is to speak to the benefit and the value of one, the dialogue. All faith traditions are having a dialogue with the divine. It's earth to heaven and heaven to earth. And so it's a way to open two-way communication. So it's not just earth to heaven, but am I willing to make this space to get from heaven to earth portion? And so, regardless of your faith tradition, you can plug that in. Whatever your faith says, you can plug that in there. And so you can speak generically about how to be still. To sense and discern the voice of God. So that's how I would do it. If there was an ecumenical group that was gathered together. Be generic. I believe it's best.
35:49
Rev. Dr. Michael Christie
Indeed, if that's what you're working with, that's how you do it. That's what I would do.
35:56
John MacAdams
Well, thank you. Thanks for that advice.
36:00
Rev. Dr. Michael Christie
There are two paths. One is to go strictly mindful; the other path, if I must go something spiritual, is just talking about the potential spiritual benefits without naming a faith tradition.
36:21
John MacAdams
So, as we move through this, let's return to your faith and how you work in your workshops. My question is, are you seeing an expansion of this kind of work across multiple churches? Are you in touch with other pastors doing work like you, or is this becoming a movement or expansion?
36:58
Rev. Dr. Michael Christie
I am not in touch with other pastors. I am training some pastors now who can see what I've done and my work. They have experienced my workshops and are like, wow, I can see how this could benefit my personhood and spiritual being. So, I can see how this can benefit my body in terms of rest, recovery, resilience, and all of that. And clarity of mind and focus. And I can also see how this can help my sense of God. So, I'm in the process of changing some pastors to do that. And I can also see how this can help my sense of God. I don't know. And that doesn't mean they don't exist.
37:39
Rev. Dr. Michael Christie
I believe an expansion is occurring in increasing awareness of mindfulness's value. Some of the walls are coming down because the language of mindfulness is so common now. Right. Every workplace is talking about mindfulness. So, if you're not doing it in your church, you're probably doing it at work. So, people are getting exposed to it on several levels. So it's easier now for this to be incorporated in some of the churches and for churches to use it for their benefit, so to speak. So, yeah, but I'm not connected to communities that are doing it. I imagine that they are there. I imagine that it's expanding. I know there's a hunger and a deep interest in it.
38:24
Rev. Dr. Michael Christie
The pastors I've talked to needed me to clarify some things for them, to help them to get some distinction in what was conflicting to them, what was a conflict for them, and what was a theological or emotional conflict for them. And once I put that in perspective, they're like, oh, yeah, that makes sense. And they can see it is not in conflict anywhere. If anything, I think Christians have been robbed of this powerful spiritual tool called meditation because our forefathers did it. So I'm not sure why we've decided that all of a sudden, it's no good today. And it's been a horrible thing that has happened to the faith community. And I'm celebrating a moment when we bring it back to connect deeper with God.
39:21
Rev. Dr. Michael Christie
If we connect deeper with God, we'll also connect deeper with each other. There's more compassion to go out when we go up.
39:31
John MacAdams
So, we anticipate several devoted individuals in our audience whose faith is foundational to their identity. They may want to follow in your footsteps or find a way to take their first steps and move into this kind of work. What would be your suggestions? Recommendations?
40:00
Rev. Dr. Michael Christie
Yeah, I would get some training, and training is training. I wouldn't worry about if it's a Buddhist teacher or some other professor teaching it. Go to college. I have no idea what that guy's faith tradition is when he's teaching me math. It could be a Buddhist, a Muslim, it could be anything, right? Math is math. Doesn't matter who the teacher is. And of course, some schools are, which will be more palatable for Christians and others. And so I think taking something like the Engaged Mindfulness Institute, what the engaged mindfulness institute offers in terms of training. If you don't want to get fully trained, there's lots of stuff on YouTube that can give you some basics about basic foundations to lay down, practice, and develop a meditation practice.
41:01
Rev. Dr. Michael Christie
But if you want to do what I do, I would say that training is essential. What I appreciated about the training was that I dabbed in meditation before I did it. But going to the training for that length of time-shifted my neurobiology into becoming more disciplined and sitting in and practicing meditation. I began to see the benefits of doing what I had not seen before when I was alone, just trying to figure it out, and then I saw your level of confidence in yourself. So part of what would happen for me and many meditators or new meditators is we question, am I doing this right? We have all kinds of thoughts in our head while we're trying to meditate, and you learn from being trained that, you know, one:
41:53
Rev. Dr. Michael Christie
Stop running the narrative in your head about right or wrong if you're doing it right. Instead, learn how to be still with your breath or whatever the object of your attention is. Be still with that and let it reprogram your mind and nervous system to stillness. So, I'm not sure if I answered your question.
42:16
John MacAdams
Well, I think so. I think the idea of getting trained and finding, you know, there are a lot of places you can go out and get some training as a mindfulness facilitator, mindfulness teacher. There are, you know, weekend opportunities and one-week opportunities. There are several different ways. But I know you did a very thorough training with Engaged Mindfulness Institute. I've done the same training and found it very beneficial and transformative for myself and my work as a mindfulness teacher. And indeed, there are others available, but I think that's excellent advice, to be well trained and that, you know, when we practice, we teach from our practice. We guide from the experience we have. We're not guessing. I think that's the confidence you're talking about.
43:08
Rev. Dr. Michael Christie
And it's not coming from a book. It's coming to your point, from your experience. And I'll say two things. As you said, I'll say there's a lot of gimmicky mindfulness training out there for a weekend, and you get a certificate. That's not honest; that's a marketing ploy, and you'll get something out of it, but they're not training you to be an instructor. So because there's no profession anywhere where you go for a weekend, you become an instructor of the thing. So I want to say to you to be careful of those things. You can certainly use those opportunities to get exposed to the practice of mindfulness and even the teaching of mindfulness. But that's not mindfulness. And to your comment about that, the teaching flows from your practice. That is so true.
44:02
Rev. Dr. Michael Christie
To the point where I don't necessarily prepare a script for my teaching. I attend class and allow what is present to dictate what I do. I have an idea of the direction in which I want to go. So if I'm doing something, for example, in beginning mindfulness teaching, there's a kind of a prescript for that. But often, when I do mindfulness classes, because I am practicing, I can show up in the room and go from there and just sense even doing the practice what is happening because I've been practicing, because you've been sitting. So you have this internal guide that helps you.
44:52
Rev. Dr. Michael Christie
And I think the more you do this work, the more you can sense what's in the room, literally what's in the room. We have a good or bad vibe, or I have a feeling about something. That ability to have that feeling expands the more we practice. So you understand what is needed next when you're in a room. Right. Sometimes, my experience has been that I might have a particular path I'm going, and I'll get a clear sense I need to change and offer something different. Usually, someone in the class would say that was beneficial for them, and they needed that, or something was happening for them. So that's the value, importance, and significance of daily practice.
45:43
Rev. Dr. Michael Christie
And even, I'll say this: it doesn't have to be extended. I know many instructors try to tell folks that half an hour this long, you can have five minutes daily. Just do something. Just be consistent with something, to be paused. Even if you pause and take ten conscious breaths right at that moment, for me, that's a practice that is the beginning of cultivating something mindful. So, yeah, those are my thoughts.
46:15
John MacAdams
I think that's great. Hopefully, we've inspired some folks to think about how they may incorporate this into their lives, their prayer, and their worship. I want to appreciate your time and expertise, all the work that you've done, and what you share with people. I know you travel around the world and do this work, so I appreciate that so much, Michael, and I'm very happy to have you here at the summit with us.
46:44
Rev. Dr. Michael Christie
Thank you, John. And God bless all of our viewers. I pray that this was a blessing to you.
46:51
John MacAdams
Thank you. If folks want to connect with you, is there a way that they can learn more about your work? Is there a website, or would they go to your church site, or how might they connect with you?
47:05
Rev. Dr. Michael Christie
Yeah, probably the best way to contact me is through LinkedIn. Doctor Michael Christy. Or I'll give an email address, and folks can reach out to me that way.
47:18
John MacAdams
Good. We'll do that on the site page.
47:21
Rev. Dr. Michael Christie
Okay, perfect. Yeah, they can check me out. Just connect with me on LinkedIn. I'll be more than happy to answer your questions and answer your curiosity post, especially about integrating this kind of practice into your faith.
47:35
John MacAdams
Reverend Doctor Michael Christie. It's been great being with you.
47:43
Rev. Dr. Michael Christie
Likewise, John.
47:44
John MacAdams
Take good care of yourself.
47:45
Rev. Dr. Michael Christie
You, too.
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