In this episode, Oren Jay Sofer speaks with Julie Paquette-Moore of the Engaged Mindfulness Institute about exploring contemplative techniques, utilizing mindfulness and nonviolent communication, and nurturing resilience during difficult periods.
Defining contemplative practices, meditation, and mindfulness.
Integrating mindfulness and nonviolent communication for better conversations.
Elements of effective communication.
Cultivating inner strength and joy in challenging times.
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Oren Jay Sofer teaches meditation and communication internationally. He holds a degree in comparative religion from Columbia University and is a Certified Trainer of Nonviolent Communication and a Somatic Experiencing Practitioner for the healing of trauma. He is the author of several books, including the best-seller Say What You Mean: A Mindful Approach to Nonviolent Communication and his latest book, Your Heart Was Made for This: Contemplative Practices to Meet a World In Crisis with Courage, Integrity, and Love. His teaching has reached people worldwide through his online communication courses and guided meditations. https://www.orenjaysofer.com/
Podcast Transcript
Julie Paquette-Moore 0:03
Hello, and welcome to another session of the Teaching Mindfulness Summit. I'm here today with Oren Jay Sofer. And I'd love to start by reading his bio to give you some background. So, Oren Jay teaches meditation, mindfulness, and nonviolent communication internationally. He holds a degree in Comparative Religion and is the author of the best-selling book, Say What You Mean, A Mindful Approach to Nonviolent Communication, and Your Heart Was Made for This, Contemplative Practices to Meet a World in Crisis with Courage, Integrity, and Love. So welcome, Oren. It's great to have you here today.
Oren Jay Sofer 0:43
Thanks, Julie. Happy to be here.
Julie Paquette-Moore 0:45
So it might be nice to jump right in. Have you defined a contemplative practice or mindful meditation for the audience?
Oren Jay Sofer 1:03
Sure, each of these is distinct: contemplative practice, meditation, and mindfulness. It is also helpful to differentiate the terms and know what we're talking about when we use each of those terms, at least from my perspective. So, let's start with the difference between meditation and contemplative practice.
I like to use the analogy that meditation is to contemplative practice as running is to exercise. So we don't all like to run, and we're not all able to run. But all of us need some form of exercise, right? Some form of movement for the body is essential for our well-being.
In the same way, meditation is one form of a much broader array of practices known as contemplative practice. Not everyone likes to meditate, and not everyone wants to meditate, even though we all can. So what is the difference there?
Meditation is one way to train the heart and mind to cultivate different qualities and capacities. Contemplative practice is a broader array of ways of relating with our inner world and our inner life. So, contemplative practice cultivates awareness and reflection, gives us perspective on life, and explores meaning, value, and purpose.
When you hear that, you can recognize there are many ways to cultivate awareness, get perspective, and explore our values and sense of purpose or meaning in life. And what I like about talking about contemplative practice more broadly, as opposed to just meditation, is that it's much more accessible. Only some have the time or the conditions in their lives to meditate every day. I know I certainly don't anymore. I used to have time to meditate for 45 minutes or an hour once or twice a day, and I'm a new parent; we have a toddler. And I don't have that kind of time anymore.
But that doesn't mean I'm not attending to my inner life, cultivating awareness, and deepening my perspective, understanding, and connection to my heart and values. I see contemplative practice more broadly as a kind of medicine, where our times or a whole apothecary, like a whole array of medicines for how stressed and overwhelmed we feel by the variety of challenges and crises facing our world.
And it's not esoteric or spiritual or only for religious people; anything can be a contemplative practice. It's really about the quality of attention and intention we bring to it. So folding the laundry can be a contemplative practice, washing the dishes can be a contemplative practice, and going for a walk through the neighborhood. How are we relating and approaching that activity? And how are we using our hearts and our minds? Once we begin to have some sense of that, we can use the time daily to cultivate our inner world, strengthen our inner resources, and position ourselves to contribute more to our families and world.
This is a little bit on contemplative practice versus meditation. So meditation is one kind of contemplative practice where we do these training exercises, investigation investigations, and different explorations of consciousness. And then mindfulness is one particular quality in the human heart and mind. So, mindfulness is defined in many different ways. Mindfulness is a curious and open awareness. So it's a way of being present that integrates these different qualities of, as Jon Kabat Zinn made famous, nonjudgment, which I talked about as openness. And then the curiosity, we're interested, there's an intimacy, with experience. And just as we can cultivate mindfulness through meditation, we can also cultivate it in other ways. If meditation doesn't speak to us personally, or we don't have the particular conditions in our life at that specific time to be doing formal meditation practices.
Julie Paquette-Moore 5:56
That helps define; my follow-up would be that you've been working directly with communication methodology. And so I wanted to ask you a bit about that with what you described as contemplative practice. So, relational skills and communication can be, as you described, brought into practice as a contemplative one. So, I wanted to ask if you wanted to talk a bit about these communication practices that you've been working with and that you've developed this integration with mindful practices. And maybe speak to that a bit for the audience, if that sounds good.
Oren Jay Sofer 6:49
Sure. Yeah, absolutely. I'll start by briefly sharing and integrating how I ended up here. So I started meditating when I was 19, through a lot of good luck and suffering. And what I found after about five or six years of practice was that the beautiful qualities I was cultivating and experiencing in my meditation practice, compassion, contentment, patience, even some small amount of clarity or wisdom/mindfulness, would somehow evaporate quickly, whenever I had a disagreement or a conflict with a co-worker. And they were even less available whenever I talked to my family; it was suddenly gone.
And so I noticed that gap. And I see what's going on here. Why isn't this stuff that I'm so committed to and even touching in powerful ways in my meditation translating into the relational space and my conversations? I was fortunate enough to learn about another practice called nonviolent communication, founded by Dr. Marshall Rosenberg; I got to meet Dr. Rosenberg and do some workshops and training with him. In that practice of nonviolent communication, I found a system of training my mind to translate the values of meditation into my relationships in conversation.
Thus began about 10 or 15 years of intensive training and exploration of how these two fit together. How do they support each other? Are there places where there are differences and aren't aligned? Or is that just semantics? So, I developed my approach, mindful communication, which integrates these two different practices. The starting point is that if we want to have better conversations, more prosperous relationships, be more effective in our work, and collaborate in meaningful ways in life, we need to be able to be aware. You can't communicate effectively if you're on automatic and just running on your habits.
So mindfulness is this essential transformative ingredient in communication and relationships. I developed an approach based on integrating mindfulness into nonviolent communication. There are three main foundations; I call them The Foundations of Mindful Communication, each of which is a certain kind of training in developing our capacity to have the kinds of conversations and relationships we want. The first Foundation is training ourselves in what I call presence, a synonym for mindfulness. I like the word presence because, for me, it connotes a more holistic and embodied experience. Then, people often hear or interpret the word mindfulness, which can be very mental, analytical, and not so much connected to our emotions and bodies. But really, they're synonyms for one another.
So the training here is to learn how to lead with presence. How can we be more embodied and fully aware when with another human? And it's pretty charged if we start paying attention to what it's like to be in front of another human being. We feel slightly more distanced when doing this kind of thing virtually. But when we're really in front of someone else, and we see their eyes, and we feel their body, maybe they're bigger than us, perhaps they're smaller than us, it stimulates something in our nervous system that's quite ancient because we are programmed biologically to assess what's happening here. Is this person a friend? Are they a foe? Is this safe?
When we start bringing mindfulness into that space, we gain a whole bunch of really profound benefits. When we're more aware, one of the most fundamental benefits is having more choices. We're no longer automatic; we get more information about what's happening in the conversation and pick up on subtle cues from the other person. We notice if we're getting reactive or defensive. All of that positions us to make wiser choices and be more connected to our skills and wisdom. We have more resilience and stamina for the difficult conversations we need today about race, climate, and politics. That takes a lot of staying power to stay engaged in a conversation when we get stimulated. We can't do that if we're not mindful, if we're not present, or unable to be grounded.
There are many methods for integrating more embodied awareness into our conversations and relationships. Many center around learning to be aware of the body, regulate, take a deep breath, and expand your attention to feel your hands or your feet. You can even notice the space around you or the sounds around you so you don't get locked into the moment, the emotion, or just the other person. These are all ways to lead with presence.
So, this first Foundation sets up the context for the conversation; it gives us access to our wisdom and resources and helps us make wiser conversation choices. As we become more aware and bring more mindfulness into the relational space, one of the critical things we begin to notice and that we can start to have some say over is our intention. So, this word has a specific meaning in Buddhist psychology and the system I use. And it's distinct. Sometimes, we use the word intention to mean the outcome in the conversation that I want or my goal. That's not what I mean; what I mean by intention is how we behave. How are we showing up? What motivates our words and actions, and how do we engage in the conversation?
And this is important because so much of our communication is nonverbal. Our tone of voice, body language, and subtle cues called micro-expressions flash across our faces. All of that is determined to a large degree by our intention and by how we approach the conversation. Are we trying to be right? Are we trying to win? Do we want to look good? Are we trying to coerce or manipulate the other person to do something?
All of this shapes how we're relating, and the other person picks up on it, sometimes consciously, sometimes subconsciously. So when we're aware, mindful, and leading with presence, we can train ourselves to come from curiosity and care, which is the second training step. It's to choose a clear and helpful intention. There are many helpful intentions we can have in conversations to connect and be patient; the default intention that I encourage people to explore is this genuine intention to understand.
What would it be like to take, as your primary objective, which doesn't mean we’re setting aside our goals or giving up our needs? It just means we're getting genuinely interested in this person's experience and all the factors relevant to whatever we're talking about, whether it's an intimate situation, a professional project, or some community organizing. Can we approach the situation with enough genuine curiosity that we are building trust? We are working together to understand the situation, and the more we understand the situation and all the different factors, objectives, and needs that are present, the more effective we can be in working together.
So this is the second Foundation: come from curiosity and care and be aware of your intention. Notice when your habits are moving into unhelpful ones like defending, protecting, judging, blaming, controlling, and try to shift towards wanting to understand genuinely.
There are three foundations. I always like to point out that the first two are all about what's happening inside. So much of our communication is not about what we say; it's about where we're coming from and how much we can build some understanding and connection with the other person.
The third Foundation is about the mechanics of our communication, specifically where we focus. So this is a training in attention. Where do we focus our attention? Are we able to be aware of how past conditioning and bias reactivity start to distort the situation or only attend to certain things and miss other things? So, can we learn to focus on what matters most fundamentally and what the underlying needs or values present in a situation are? Part of being human is being motivated to fulfill or satisfy deeper needs, underlying longings, and core motivating values.
This perspective comes from humanistic psychology, which says that all human behavior and action can be understood as an attempt to meet underlying needs. When we take that approach, that perspective, which aligns with the history of Buddhist philosophy that informs modern secular mindfulness, says that everyone wants to be happy. And we're all just confused going about how to do that.
Humanistic psychology says what happiness looks like in any given situation are these different facets of the human heart: fundamental physiological needs, relational needs, like understanding, trust, belonging, empathy, play, touch, and then what we might call higher needs. Things like beauty, purpose, meaning, transcendence, peace. So these underlying values motivate us, and when we begin to be aware of them, they provide a context to hear and understand one another at a deeper level, a level of our shared humanity.
Even when the views and the strategies that we are engaging with in our lives don't align, we may disagree vehemently with the choices someone is making and actively seek to either block, prevent, or change those actions, whether it's on the level of policy or an individual level. But we can still see the person's humanity; we can still understand at this more fundamental level what they're trying to accomplish, sometimes, whether or not they're aware of it by using this perspective of what's known as needs-based communication.
It takes practice and skill to be aware of the underlying needs. This doesn't mean we're necessarily going to agree, but it does mean that we can find strategies that don't come at the expense of our well-being, another's well-being, or the well-being of our planet or other creatures. So, I'll share a brief story about this, and then we can go further or move on.
I think it was in the 1990s, after a series of shootings at reproductive health clinics in Boston, the John Salvy shootings, when a group of local female therapists got together and decided that they wanted to do something different in their community. They were at a March, and contingents from both sides were present, just shouting and screaming at one another. And they realized they'd never get anywhere with this approach. So, they started something called the Public Conversations Project. They got together with some women from each side of the issue around reproductive rights. They started having conversations and getting to know one another, exploring their values underneath their positions, underneath the political views and strategies they had.
This project was very interesting because none of the women changed their views. None of the women changed their position or their strategy around reproductive rights. But what happened was that they were no longer the women who were connected to the pro-life side and were no longer willing to allow violence as a strategy. None of these women were directly involved in it. But when there was a march or demonstration, or they got word through the network that people wanted to come to engage in violence, they said, You're not welcome here. That's not how we approach things in our community.
And to me, that's a victory. It shows that through the connection at that human level of understanding and honoring the values and the deeper human needs that both sides represented, they said, you know, we still differ about what we want to happen here. But we're not willing to use violence to do it. So this is the power of creating the conditions to have these kinds of conversations, where we can get down to the fundamentals of what's important to us as human beings. And it takes all these skills of leading with the presence of being able to be here, of knowing our intention, coming from curiosity and care, and then being able to focus on what matters, to get down to this fundamental level of our human needs.
Julie Paquette-Moore 21:03
It's great and so powerful. As you wrap with all of that and the idea of being in a relationship, how these women, regardless of their view, in a sense, there's something about getting to know people beyond their views and being able to relate in that way. Interestingly, you're saying it comes from presence, having a certain intention of caring or kindness, and then either coming from understanding or at least being able to recognize the needs of others.
Oren Jay Sofer 21:42
And to identify our needs, practice, and be clear about what's important to us.
Julie Paquette-Moore 21:51
So also be aware of your needs arising and how that's playing out in those conversations. With all this, people listen and think of the three main points. How do you put this into practice? Into action? I'm thinking about how you started talking about family conversations and how we can fall back into our conditioning easily. I'm thinking about conflicts, from family conversations down to tough conversations and conflicts. And so, how do we follow these three steps? How do you put these into action? How do you integrate that so it becomes more natural?
Oren Jay Sofer 22:39
Thank you. Important question. The first point is to recognize that communication is a skill, just like any other, and that we can train ourselves to communicate differently. And just that reminder. Along with that, it takes time. We're each working with a lot of momentum and habits that are often deeply ingrained.
And so the first point is it's possible; it's a learned skill, and we can transform it. The second point is to go slowly and make one small change at a time. And I'll give some specific steps for how to do that. But transformation often happens incrementally when dealing with something as complex as human communication with as much momentum as decades of habits. The analogy I use here is that it's like trying to turn a ship at sea that has a lot of momentum. If you change the angle of the rudder, to one or two degrees, nothing is happening at first. But if you hold the angle over time, that ship goes in a very different direction.
So, just look for a tiny change that you can make in your conversations and communication and then sustain it. Stick with it until it becomes your norm, your new default habit. That's a healthy habit, and then make another change.
Before I get to the skills and practical steps, the third point in how to go about this is to remember that those challenging conversations are the hardest places to make changes. And we will find more traction and bandwidth to make changes if we start by practicing in informal, low-stakes conversations. That's the training ground for making lasting transformation. It is by working with normal day-to-day conversations and trying to make changes. Then, when a difficult conversation comes up, that new skill is there for us because we've already been working with it. We've already made it part of our repertoire and when the difficult conversation comes, we just do our best.
So, what are some of the ways to do this? With presence, for example, try being a little bit aware of your body when you're talking with somebody else. Can you feel your feet? Can you feel the weight of your body? So even now, as we're talking or as folks are listening, you're hearing my voice. Maybe you're seeing the image. Are you aware of your own body as you're listening? Another great way to lead with presence is to experiment with the pace of your speech or pause just a little bit.
So we speak using our breath, which is intimately tied to our nervous system. So, if you slow the pace of your speech just a little bit, I'm talking about something that will be relatively imperceptible to someone listening to you. It's just enough so that it's different, novel, and unfamiliar for you; that will bring more presence into your speech and down-regulate your nervous system. Because if you're speaking a little bit more slowly, guess what it means, you're breathing a little bit more slowly, which means your parasympathetic nervous system is coming online, you're starting to relax a little bit, to downshift.
So these are a few tools for leading with presence. How do we get curious? This is a great practice for listening. When you listen, listen. So much of the time when we're listening, we're planning what we're going to say next, we're disputing, we're thinking of something else, we're worrying about the to-do list, can we practice, rarely, just listening. Just making space, just being present. It's easiest to do this, again, when we're not in a conflict, not in a fight. But the more we practice it, the more we're able to access it in those other areas.
Then there's another skill we can add to that that most people are familiar with but often need to practice in a truly sincere and genuine way. And this is something called active listening or reflective listening. And it's that ability to listen fully and genuinely check if we're understanding by offering someone back some kind of verbal reflection. This is a way of what I call completing a cycle in communication, of checking that the message sent was message received, really confirming that we're hearing each other. When we use this communication technique, it tends to fall flat. So what I hear you saying is blah blah, don't give me that BS. It has to be real. We genuinely have to want to understand the person. And it has to make sense on the level of our emotional intelligence to be checking if we've understood, to say, I want to make sure I'm getting it. You said a lot, and I want to make sure I'm getting everything important. Here's what I'm getting. Can you tell me if this is right?
Then, we offer our understanding to the other person. This can have far-reaching effects in a conversation. Just taking that pause before we respond or go on to what we want to say, you know, we're gonna make sure I'm hearing what you want me to hear. Before I tell you what I think or disagree with you or share my experience, I want to make sure I'm hearing what you want me to hear. This is what I'm getting. Am I hearing it right?
So this is a way to cultivate that genuine curiosity. They support each other when we offer that kind of reflection. How do we learn to be more aware of needs, this is often the most difficult for people because we have been so trained to disconnect from our emotions and needs. And often, it starts by being aware of our emotions by reclaiming some connection to our heart and our inner life in that way because our feelings and emotions, from the perspective of humanistic psychology and nonviolent communication, are connected to our needs.
If we're feeling an emotion, it's because there's something we care about. If you didn't care about something, you wouldn't be feeling anything about it. So start by being aware of your emotions and just track how I feel right now. What emotions are present? Then, look more deeply and ask yourself what matters to me and what's important.
Go to my website to search for a needs list, a list of universal human needs, download it, read the list, and familiarize yourself with the concepts of human needs. Do I want to be heard? Do I want to be considered? Am I looking for more understanding? Is it more collaboration that I'm seeking? Is it more joy and vitality? What are my actual needs that are either being fulfilled or not being fulfilled?
Then, that starts to inform our approach, which is just a way of investigating and paying attention to our experience. And that question, what matters, is the practical tool. Ask yourself and listen to what matters and what's important. And then try to listen in that way. Consider for others, what's important to this person? What are they after? What matters to them? And you'll know that you've arrived at a need by feeling something shift inside. A need is always what we do want. It's something positive. It's not like this person just wants me to get off their back or avoid something.That's a strategy. A need is something we do want.
So, do they want to be understood? Do they want more space? Do they want to be seen for their intentions? When we get to a need, something shifts inside because we recognize ourselves in it. Oh, yeah, I get that, that's valid. Needs are universal. So when you ask yourself that question, what matters? What's important to me? To them? Keep asking the question until you get down to that level, that it's something positive that you or the other person does want, rather than what they don't want. And it connects you. In your heart, there's some level of understanding and recognition that arrives.
Julie Paquette-Moore 31:17
It's interesting to hear the process because communication is relational. It's in no way an individual process, and it's interesting; the tools and the way to build into this, in some ways, do sound like it's a lot about connecting with yourself and understanding the heart and mind a little bit better in terms of understanding others.
So you talked about the first piece of feeling in the body, where you're getting in touch with yourself, in a sense. You talked about understanding your own emotions, in that sense, and understanding your own needs to know where someone else is coming from. But there's something so important in that where this relational process, it's this stance and this balance of really checking in with understanding the self better to know someone else in a deeper capacity.
I want to move on from that. And this might not necessarily be moving on, but we talked a little bit about contemplative practice as a resource for crises. You've laid out that we talked about this in terms of starting small, and you mentioned how transformation starts in those day-to-day conversations. I like how you said transformation, how these small, small pieces can add up to the bigger transformation.
Given the various crises we're facing in the world, I want to jump into the bigger picture. How do you see these contemplative practices serving? How do you see this helping to address climate issues, issues like race, and other broader issues? How do you see these practices as a way to engage with the world more healthily?
Oren Jay Sofer 33:43
Thanks, Julie. Hmm. There are a few different ways that I am exploring it myself. First, I just want to make a little distinction: whether we're talking about our communication skills or other areas of our lives, that incremental approach of moment-by-moment, small steps leads to lasting transformation. As we make this shift to looking at systemic change. In some of the larger crises that are unfolding in our world, there's another truth there, which is that there aren't individual solutions to structural problems and that often, the change needs to happen at a collective level, at a structural level, whether we're talking about policy change, or systems change. Those, of course, are informed by and connected to individual actions.
However, the theory of change that we often hear in the wellness space and spiritual circles is that if everyone does their work and changes, the world will change because it is a collective of individuals; this notion breaks down. Network effects and systems are at play that have their own lives, even though they were created by and perpetuated by individuals. So, we need to engage at both levels. And as we make this shift in the conversation, I need to name that. So, how can our contemplative practice be a resource or help us create more leverage when looking at these larger structures?
It shows up in a few different ways. First and foremost, so many of the people I talk to and meet with today, myself included, as a new parent and a conscious sensitive being, find ourselves overwhelmed and treading water. And so I think one of the essential tasks for all of us who are alive on the planet today, who are concerned and wanting to make a difference, working to make a difference, is to look at that experience of overwhelm. The tendency towards collapse, shutting down, turning off, and saying, What do I need to shift that pattern? What do I need internally? What do I need relationally? What do I need structurally in terms of the conditions of my life? Where are the leverage points where I can have an influence so I'm no longer functioning as a passive agent who's overwhelmed and just trying to keep their head above water?
And so where contemplative practice comes in, there is recognizing the essential need and value of nourishing the heart of things like rest, joy, gratitude, play, wonder, all of these beautiful, excellent resources that are available, if we know where to look and how to cultivate them. And I recognize that these things often become relegated to certain kinds of privilege because of the oppressive structures of our society, even though they're innate and also a certain kind of human right.
So, our access to rest can be limited by our economic circumstances. Our access to wonder can be limited by where we live in terms of how much wildness there is around us and how much oppression we're dealing with individually daily. And yet, there are still things that we can do.
So, looking at this whole process of how I reclaim my energy and my power so that I can engage in a wise response to what's happening begins with recognizing the power of our attention and how our attention has been stolen from us by the media, by technology, by economic pressure, and starting to develop the radical potential for reclaiming our attention. Because attention shapes our experience, where we place our attention, whether we're looking at our device, stressing out about the future, beating ourselves up,
what we do with our minds and where we place our attention shapes our inner world and determines what resources we have available or what inner resources we are using and burning up.
So, it starts with placing our attention more consciously in useful ways. That might look like when we're riding on the subway and have five minutes instead of pulling out the device and scrolling, just closing your eyes and resting or looking for the moment of joy or goodness around you instead of focusing on the depressing things. And this is not to block out the pain. This is not to pretend that everything's okay. It's about recognizing that every moment we're practicing something, we are reinforcing a particular habit, a certain way of being, a certain way of living.
And so are we living in such a way that we're reinforcing habits of rushing, impatience, complaining, fear, worry, and discontent, or are we using the moments we've been gifted in this life to strengthen patience, energy, joy, generosity, kindness? So we're building an inner toolkit and a wall of resilience and resource. This then positions us to understand, engage, and respond to what's happening in more powerful and wise ways.
Then, what we start to see is that the process of contemplative practice and inner cultivation and the process of social transformation go hand in hand. This is not an either-or approach; the two need each other, and we need the renewal and the strength and the end of the inner transformation of contemplative practice to sustain our work for social transformation. Also to inform it that we're coming from a place of love, compassion, and wisdom and bringing into being the world we want to create in our work.
And so we don't burn out or recreate some of the patterns of oppression and control we're trying to transform. And in the same way, we need some action, service, and work for change to channel and express our deep love and care for one another and the planet. This is really what I'm actively exploring in my own life and practice. And I'm trying to teach about more and more because I believe, and as many people do, that we're living in a critical moment in history, and that there are so many aspects of our world and our institutions and our public systems that are at tipping points. And so what we say and do individually and collectively matters. And I want all of us to draw deep and do our best to make more conscious choices, talk to each other about what's happening, and find our calling. What is it that we want to get involved with? Where do we want to put our time and energy?
Julie Paquette-Moore 42:42
Yeah, that's great. It's a nice way, almost a call to action, for anyone listening. You talked about connecting this attention, where your attention goes, and having the strength to place your attention in a place that will be helpful. You spoke of cultivating more joy and maybe recognizing when things are difficult or almost like helplessness and how seeing maybe the other side of the coin, seeing small things that are good that you can be grateful for.
I know this is not one-size-fits-all by any means, but could you share something really helpful for you in this cultivation of practice or something that may help you get to that place of finding a little bit more joy or hopefulness?
Oren Jay Sofer 43:52
First, I want to say that we need a lot more than nourishment, joy, gratitude, wonder, rest, and ease. That's one flavor of these qualities we can enrich through contemplative practice. But we also need courage, integrity, resolve, aspiration, and a vision of what's possible. So, I need to recognize that there's a whole host of qualities and capacities that we need to complement each other.
But some of the things that are supporting me right now or give me hope to find solace and strength and possibility, so I mentioned that I'm a parent. We have a 16-month-old toddler at the time of this recording conversation. He gives me hope joy, and wonder every day, whether it's kneeling by the side of the road in the rain or just seeing the raindrops making concentric circles in the water, and just being fascinated by that, and coming back to the wonder of being alive. Or just the pure joy and delight that bubbles out of him and remembering that innate capacity we all have to celebrate and to feel free.
When you have that blessing or possibility, being around children is important. It also connects me with the vulnerability of the times we're living through and a deep sense of strength and compassion for him and future generations. It's one thing to be middle-aged, look ahead to the predictions about climate change, and there's this, I see my mind, that's cynical, like, well, I'll be gone. Right? That thought arises: it's a very self-centered approach, and to spend time with a young child and get like, Oh, no, like, this is real. This is real, the impacts, and I have a responsibility to future generations that brings forth energy and commitment and shifts the perspective from my little world to the broader world.
So these are some things, and having relationships with others that challenge me is essential. I think about my community, who I spend time with, and the kinds of conversations I have. For many of us, the tendency can be to surround ourselves with people like us. And I need to continue growing and learning and being pushed to stay in relationships with people who are more engaged on the frontlines of social change work or people who are more aware of what's happening in different areas. Whether racial justice, environmental justice, immigrant rights, or other areas of transformation in our world.
Because I learn from it, it pushes me, it raises the bar. So that's important- relationships.
And then a third thing in the moment that comes to mind to share is attention training. Attention is being very intentional about the media that I consume and ensuring that I'm exposing myself to how people all around the world are rising, coming together and trying to make change. It's happening everywhere. And the mainstream media doesn't report on it. So if the only media we're consuming is mainstream media, I'm not talking about left, center, or right. Those are all the same in the mainstream in that they're reporting on the fear, the violence, what's wrong, and the bad news because there's a need to generate profit through advertising and attract eyeballs.
But are you looking at the stories? Or do you have ways to learn about the movements for nonviolent resistance, the movements for sovereignty, for giving rights to rivers and ecosystems, the movements for a livable wage and better working conditions, and labor organizing, that are happening worldwide? People are concerned, they're organizing, they're speaking up. And that brings hope that brings energy because it is happening. When I think about the war and the crisis in the Middle East, it's so easy to just sink in heartbreak and despair and not remember millions of people around the world who are calling out for peace, calling out for an end to the violence and another way forward. And so this is happening and it is present.
And I was having a conversation with someone else today, and we were talking about this, and I was reminded of the fact that when transformation happens on a collective level, sometimes there's a tipping point, and we don't see it happening. All of a sudden, the Berlin Wall came down. All of a sudden, apartheid ends in South Africa. And there's not all of a sudden, concerted effort and organizing and pressure and momentum, often for decades before it. But those actions along the way, and those conversations and those small steps, while we're doing them, or while they're happening, we don't see the end, we don't see where it's coming. We need to expand our time horizon, beyond our lifetime for the kinds of things that we're working on, and that we're looking at, and hold that sense of vision. The way the suffragettes did the abolition movement in this country. We need to have that longer vision and know that our lives mean something and are connected to the future, and place our energy and our faith and what we know is right and good and give ourselves to it.
Julie Paquette-Moore 51:12
I love how you started by seeing what's right before you. You talked about your son and the inspiration from what's right here. And then I love how you brought into it to expand and see a more extensive, a bigger, more comprehensive view, too. So there's this importance of what's here.
And then also, can we see beyond the news? You talked about going beyond the news in terms of seeing good news. I think often, it's not easy to find, and there's no good news station, in a sense.
Oren Jay Sofer 51:49
Well, there are, though, that's the thing. There are whole outlets of news devoted to the good news, and you can search for them.
Julie Paquette-Moore 51:57
Recently, I saw one of the most watched TED talks with a man who ran this episode on the good news and changed the news, making it more obvious what's good out there. So it's so important to broaden the view too. There are so many beautiful gems that you've shared today; I'm wondering if there's anything you'd like to share with the audience regarding how they can communicate with you or any work that you're offering right now that you'd like people to know about?
Oren Jay Sofer 52:38
Thanks. The best way to stay in touch or connect is through my website, Orenjsofer.com. I have a small email list and would love to hear from you and stay in touch that way. I teach online regularly, and my teaching schedule there has all my events. These days, I'm teaching a lot about this, which is the subject of my most recent book, you mentioned in the introduction, Your Heart Was Made for This. And if this resonates with you, I would love to have you check out the book and hear from you about how it's supporting or challenging you in your life. And thanks so much for having me in the conversation.
Julie Paquette-Moore 53:17
Thank you. Thanks so much for being here. Be well.
Oren Jay Sofer 53:20
You too.
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